Productivity – task management
Productivity – task management
Here is the transcript of the second podcast episode with Oliver, so you can read through it again instead of listening 🙂 Enjoy!
Oliver
Today is everything is about task management. So if you’re looking, for example, and in blogs, different blogs on the internet, everything’s about task management about having the perfect to do list how to structure it to use paper or digital tools. And I want with your help, Christine, I want to bring a bit of light into this kind of topic, because in my opinion, and I’m excited about how you feel about it, in my opinion, the discussion in like, let’s say the books on the internet is too much focus on what kind of tools you use, if you use Asana to do lists to do is Hello. But in my opinion, it doesn’t matter, or it matters, but it’s not as important. What kind of tool you use. It’s more important, what kind of strategy? And yeah, I’m really excited. What do you think about this?
Christine
Yes, I agree. When we already mentioned, we touched on this in the last episode, because it’s not always just the tool, you have to know how to use it. And you have to have your own way and structure and make sure you use it in the most efficient way that works for you. Because some tools can be amazing. But can be also overwhelming. Maybe you have a lot of things in there that you don’t need, maybe. And then it might not be the right tool, or you might need to find out what’s the best way. But structure comes before the tool for sure. Because you can a tool can be also a piece of paper and a pen, of course, that we’re in a digital era, obviously. And the tools, digital tools and apps and websites and project management tools can really help to optimize things and to be more efficient. But if you don’t have the structure, then also that won’t work. Yes, I completely agree.
Oliver
Yes, there’s like really quick road that I use regularly, which is a tool not excuse me before with the tool is still full. So let’s go directly into it. And yeah, in the preparation of this episode, I thought about what does task management type. And when I think about task management, I think about two things that each task or the task management should help us with the first thing of us maintain the overview, right? Because we cannot keep everything in our mind. If you’re working for example, in the startup area, or if you’re a freelancer or have different kinds of jobs or businesses. Normally you have a lot of projects you have a lot of things to do you have a lot of different kinds of areas where you’re working from. So a good task management should help us maintain the overview. What do I have to do today? What do I have to do tomorrow and the week after? And the second thing that I think task management should help us with is to help us focusing on the important tasks. Because if you’re looking at the problems that task management is causing right or everybody should know at least we have too many tough tasks per day, right? So when I talk to people they feel overwhelmed or frustrated because that their to do list for example as 1520 30 tasks. And if you’re looking at your tasks in the morning, you know that you won’t finish it completely at the end. of the day, and this will cause you overwhelming and frustrating. And on the other hand, I think another problem that will the cost management has is the feeling of the day end of the day that you are busy or not really productive. So an AI, from my point of view, it has management should deal with that kind of problems, right. And I will go straight to the solutions after you want to mention something. But this is really crucial to know, people normally focusing on finding directly solution. But in my opinion, you should step back first, what’s the problems? My case was too many tasks per day. And the feeling that I don’t know, completed 20 tasks, but wasn’t productive, just feeling.
Christine
That’s a really good point. Because it’s good to have a solution focused mindset, if not focus always on the problems in your life and in your in your business. How doing your studies or something, but sometimes looking at okay, what is actually the issue, problem, challenge, whatever you want to call it? And how, and why is this there in the first place. And then it might be resolved already with the first step by reducing the task by not doing certain things, I really was super strict. Also, I have to say this in last week with some of the stuff after we had our first episode recording, actually. And I thought, okay, there’s some stuff, I’m super productive and stuff, and I get things done. However, I can do better. And I can use either more tools, but also, I can look into exactly that, okay, what’s the problem? Why is stuff? Why are certain things stealing my time? And are they really worth doing, and this is what I do with all my clients. But you might know, the things that we do with clients, we don’t do perfectly for ourselves. But this time, I really implemented a lot of things. And it took a lot of pressure off my shoulder and freed up some more time that I can spend in a more productive way focusing really on, on this final aim that I’m having and focus of my business at the moment. So good to good point, saying step back, have a look at what the issue is, and where is it coming from? And then you can look into solutions, because maybe you can eradicate some of the stuff already, and then there might be a better solution than the one you thought would be
Oliver
So when I look at task management, normally, I will divided in two parts. And this is really crucial to understand because normally people focusing on how to manage their task, right. So and this is like the old time management, task management, self management kind of area. But also in my opinion, before we try to manage our task, the first step has to be know your task and eliminate the unimportant stuff, right. So when I look at past management or when I work with my clients, first, I mean, I save or I want to help them to understand what kind of tasks they have hurts it’s know your task and get an overview about your task, and just the second step is mentioned. So and for the first part, in my system, the system that I use, I try to focus on three time or let’s say four I’m maybe I will send you a little metrics that I was waiting. So, you can you can divide tasks into recurring tasks, and one time tasks, this like the one dimension and the second mentioned is are the goal related or not. And if you if you just divided to this final dimensions, you get the one time tasks which are goal related, which in my system I call the project tasks. You have the second which is goal related but we curving past which I call the areas of focus. And you have like the recurring tasks that are not goal related, which are obviously the routines like for example if your startup answering emails or doing the financial stuff doing all your admin work would be a perfect routine. When it comes to projects is I don’t know producing or let’s say creating and sales process. Building your website. This is like it has conquered reach that point that concrete endpoint. And it’s, it’s a kind of project. And now when it comes to productivity, then, in my opinion, the most important task is your area of focus, which are the recurring tasks that you do on a daily, weekly, monthly or yearly base, that will bring your business up, or let’s say that bring your business to the next level. For example, I’ll give you like a quick example. If you’re looking at a normal chain office startup, you have at least this strategic planning, you have the customer acquisition, you have the delivery of your services. And in the end, you have some kind of marketing follow up, or stuff like this just randomly for parts. But now if you’re focusing on all the tasks that you have to do all the routines and stuff like this, in my opinion, the best thing you can do is to really step back and think about what are the crucial tasks that you have to do for like, on a regular basis for maintaining your business, like you have, for sure you have to earn money. So you have to acquire customer stuff like this, and then make this a routine, right, but an area of focus. And then focusing on the project tasks, and the rest the routines and single tasks that will come in, we have to pry your retires. Just to mention that maybe it was a bit complicated, but first step know your path, right? Divided to Guru like, what is it? What are my routines, my most crucial routines that I should not skip? What are my other routines, what are my project tasks, and then you can really apply the good old 8020 Pareto The Pareto principle where you can say, Okay, this is like the crucial things that I should not skip, the rest is up to you. The second step is managing your tasks. But before I go into that, do you have any questions? Or do you want to add something about how to get an overview about your tasks?
Christine
The question might be okay, Where do I start with creating a list of all the things I’m doing? And I, my question would be maybe also to you? Do you only talk about business tasks? Or do you want to look at the entire life? So is it personal tasks and business tasks that people want to look at? To receive a better balance between the two? I don’t know, what would you recommend?
Oliver
So in my case, I in my private life has three areas of focus, which is the first one is bored, and everything which is related to my body, which helps me to be productive, which helps me to maintain my high level of energy. The second thing, or recurring area of focus that I have, is knowledge. So reading books, looking at online courses, for example, your really beautiful online courses that you did, like stuff like this. And the third and last part are my relationships. So for example, one of my tasks that I have on Friday is looking at my list of my close friends, and maybe I wasn’t paying attention to I don’t know, if brand of mine that I wasn’t calling for month, so I decided to call him or calling my family stuff like this. So this are like three areas of focus that I have in my in my personal life that we really focus on. And this tasks are on my to do list. And in my in my professional life. So if you were to like this, the areas are really everything about cars, marketing and sales, everything about making my service better, and everything which is related to planning. Right. So these are the most crucial points and I really made a really strong routine out of it that I would never skip it. So if you’re looking at your week, and we will come back to time management in another episode, but if you now look at your, your week, you have a baseline, let’s say baseline scenario where you have, I don’t know 10 to 15 hours where you’re only doing the most important tasks, like areas could tasks. And then on top, you bring your routines that you have to take care of, for example, answering emails, stuff like this. And on top, you have the project tasks, which will make your business or if you use it in your, your personal life, your personal life better and bringing it to the next level.
Christine
Yes, there’s one thing I would like also to say, because, again, sometimes people might think like, okay, but where do I start? How do I create the list, obviously, how you creating the list is up to you if you want to put it on a piece of paper if you want to do a digital or something. But what I would say is to have this as a evolving document, because there might be new things that come along that you need to add to the business or to your personal life, you might have a new hobby, a new routine. So you will also forget something when you start creating this list. So once you come across something, if you think oh, I didn’t put that on the list, put it on the list. This is how it’s an evolving document. And it might change over time as well. And that is okay. And you need to maybe review it from time to time and to be the most productive self.
Oliver
Yeah, 100%. I agree totally. Because in my for several of my case, I use half, I will take myself off half a day in like a month to only look about my kind of areas of focus and my projects and add new stuff and new hobbies, stuff like this. So this is like really important to mention that it is involving right. Now that we got an overview you should be now if you if you take yourself time about what’s your kind of weak rowing or weaker in areas of focus tasks, what I project which are directly related to your to your goals. Yeah, we didn’t mention that before. A good task management one of the basics, you cannot prioritize or have good task management, if you do not know your goals, you can manage your routines, you can manage the stuff that is coming in. But the good goal setting is in my case, or in my opinion, is the baseline of good task management. Good. So the first step is made, we got an overview about our task, what are the most important tasks, what are our projects or routines. And now you could eliminate things that are not really important, you will do it anyways, if you’re getting more to do and you’re get used to work more on the important stuff. The unimportant stuff will if you if you using this kind of metrics, you will really quickly see that you’re you will not use so many will not use much time for unimportant stuff. Now, the second step is managing your task. Yeah, and there are strongly recommend to use a to do list. And it doesn’t matter what kind of to do list you use, you can use for example, in paper based rules, you can use digital to do lists there. So I don’t know 1000 different apps programs, when it comes to organizing your tasks. But I did brought you three, let’s say x productivity task management hacks that I use in my path management system that each of them or each of the hacks improve my productivity index. So the first thing that I recommend you is if you’re looking at your to do list, every do should have an action verb. Maybe you know that situation. Think about for example, you I don’t know get an email or okay, maybe email. It’s not the best thing but somebody says to you, Hey, can you send me the report x y Zed in two weeks, and you write it down, for example, report x y Zed and two weeks you will look at your To Do lists and you don’t know what you should do with this report whom you will send it stuff like this. So if you have to get used to writing tasks really precise, and the most important thing is that you use an action verb. What should you do with this kind of object, send we port update, we port delay, delete, we put it can be everything right? But the first hack that I could give you when it comes to managing your task, use actual works and be as concrete as possible, your future? Me will thank you. This I can. Can Trump’s you the seconds? Or do you want to add some?
Oliver
Yeah. Nice. Yeah, the second thing that I can give you actually just say it, this is not I, let’s say, how do you say, I rocked it or No, I got it from another productivity guru that I really liked
Christine
You could say you stole it. But let’s say you got inspired.
Oliver
I got inspired by Kathleen, which is a really nice productivity guru when it comes to digital productivity programs. And he has a two plus eight productivity system which matches my own system so well that I now use the 2.2 plus eight, because you know, the Pareto Principle like 2030 2080, so 20% of your tasks will bring 80% of the results. And when it comes to your to do list, normally, if you’re looking at statistics, or if you, for example, watching at your To Do lists for few weeks, you will see that you normally if you have more than 10 to dues on your list, normally you will end the day without doing them, right. So maybe you have 123 tasks less. So the first thing is your To Do Lists trip or four day should only have 10 to dues not more, just 10 and inside the 10 tasks, there should be two to dues and eight nice to dues and this is like really crucial point. So, the two are the top two dues should be related to your goals, it can be in product project, it can be an area of focus task, but it should have in my opinion, should be related to your goals that you want to reach. And you should not end your day without finishing the two tasks. If you are getting used to do the tasks, the two top to do tasks, then you will get like, like you have to task in a day 10 tasks in a week, which are goal related. Because normally, if you’re looking at productivity, people doing three goal related tasks in a day, the next day, they’re just doing routines and stuff that will not matter. And then they will again, doing important tasks. But if you’re getting used to two tasks that are goal related, every day, you’ll get used or you will use the compound effect. So you will be productive, constantly productive. So two plus eight is really, in my opinion is really nice. And the third and last hack that I use is your to do list is just that to do list. So you can end up writing there 1015 2030 To dues and even if you have action verbs and just add 10 tasks for the day, you could end the day without doing one task if you have meetings all the time. So the last hack that I give to us use the combination of your calendar and your to do list for your writing. So sit in the evening, I would highly recommend you to look through your calendar, what kind of events do you have? Where are the? Or do you have time, work, productivity, to work on your most important tasks for the day. And if you have then to your to do list, because if you don’t pay attention to the calendar, it can be that she has the perfectly two plus eight tasks. Every task has its own action verb, but in the end of the day, you have eight hours of zoom meetings and you cannot do a task. So
Christine
I think that was really good. Thank you. And yes, two main task or the tasks that you need to do to get closer to your goal. It’s really important to get this done and then to prioritize things. I mean, there’s I can give a whole episode about how to prioritize tasks, but make sure you do prioritize your tasks that get you closer to your goal and use these rules to cut out things that you really don’t need things that don’t bring too much. And sometimes we all need to do things We don’t like doing but we have to in the business, maybe you can even outsource those. And but sometimes we can’t and just need to get things done. For me, I like to do things first that I don’t like to do. So they don’t nag me and they don’t annoy me. And I think like, but very good point. And I do that as well I check in the evening at the end of my working day, basically. Okay, what’s coming up tomorrow? And then already create my today list for tomorrow looking into my calendar, what kind of meetings to have. So I know also, which blocks to put where so when do I do this? When do I do that? Because I also do that I look at the tasks, and have allocated time blocks for those tasks. Yeah, thank you. Perfect.
Oliver
Yeah. So this is like really important part. The really important point, right, too. We didn’t talk about, about priorities. But in my opinion, if you have goals, really goals that motivates you, prioritization. It’s easy for you. But if you don’t know where to go, then the prioritization is really hard to make right? In your tasks.
Christine
Finding what to do first and next. And sometimes it also like, Ah, I need to do everything but no, okay, what really happens if you do this in half an hour? What if you do that tomorrow? And a lot of times, we get stressed out for nothing. And it’s the same when people say, I have to post at 2pm on social media, on Instagram? Well, unless you have a big following of people that are waiting for you to go live on Instagram, and you, you told everyone you will. Nothing happens if you post it an hour later or something, probably. But just don’t get too stressed out about things and timelines that you set yourself that might not have to be at that specific point in time.
Oliver
Yes, and it’s so important. This is why I brought up the two plus eight rule because a mistake that I see in almost every to do list or watch is five or six, top to do’s, right? For example, you mentioned the posting something on social media. And if you’re if you set yourself rules, for example, there are only two top two dues only two to dues eight, nice to lose, then you have to focus then you have to prioritize, you have to think about what is really important. And yeah, they are normally I just have a little reminder on my, on my sideboard, which is the focus question of COVID question means what past will make all the other tasks easier? And this is like really nice question that you can ask yourself.
It’s like a game changer. Because you think about okay, not only will a social media post, I don’t know, make myself my life easier. My business easier, yes or no? And sometimes, for example, if you sit there in the evening, you can say, okay, maybe I have to, I don’t know, automate stuff. Or maybe I have to write the process, my sales process my marketing process updated, and then you will get the results in the long run, right?
Christine
Yes, what else? What else? Do we have anything else we want to share? I mean, this was already a lot. And I wrote it down. And they’re super actionable. And actually simple tips that everyone can do. And I just suggest start with one, start getting used to one thing that you want to implement and just keep stick with it. To make this a habit to put action words in. Okay, I know. And it becomes easier for you, and then add on the next bit. But amazing, thank you. Super good. Yeah,
Oliver
You will come and they are like, obviously, that 1000 tips when it comes to task management, the most obvious Lee I skipped because, for example, you mentioned a really nice one, for example, eat the frog. Everybody knows the book. So eat the eat the frog or do the most unpleasant task in the morning. So you don’t start with just doing this email doing that email. And after two hours, you’re too tired to do the big tasks. And this would be another tip. And one thing that I really want to stress out well now we’re talking a bit more about tools. When it comes to your to do list. The To Do list. The only thing that the to do list does is shows it shows you what you have to do today. Sometimes, especially when it comes to working with startups, and the farmers getting crazy about the new tools because they are really they love new apps and there’s like Asana, Trello, whatever new tools everywhere, and they start to make a really crazy complicated system. But when it comes to your to do list, it just shows you what you have to do today, it should not show you what you have to do tomorrow in two weeks or something like this, this will not this will eat your focus, right? So, in my case, my to do list is really lean really strict. I only see okay, my top two dues for the day, my two dues for the, for the morning, my two dues for the evening. Like normally I have to talk to do so. Which are like can do I don’t know whenever I want to. And I have like, I don’t know, four or five to do in the morning and the rest of the evening. But in when it comes to my daily planning, I will not look at my weak plan, for example. So my to do list only shows me what you have to do today. Focus, no distractions. Just focus.
What kind of I just saw before your to do list is a paper to write? What kind of structure do you use? Do you have any tips hacks, when it comes to organizing your to do list?
Christine
I actually have to do a Today list. So basically, the to do list is endless and growing. And it’s getting too frustrating for me when it’s not empty, and everything’s crossed through. And they will never be because there’s always ongoing things as well, when I’m waiting, I have a mix of calendar and paper. I worked with Word documents before I work with apps as to do lists. But I always need to be able to write something quickly as well, if I’m talking to a client or if something pops into my head or anything. So I do went back actually to paper, I have to say. And I do have a to do list with growing and growing. So for example, I’m working on a new online course. So I have to create the timetable for that. And they send that and then there’s obviously one task, or let’s say one topic, which has a lot of subtasks. So I want to have them out of my head to put them down. But then I just pick what I will do on the day. So for example, I also have a new plugin I’m using for my website, and it has so many add ones that I can use. But it’s impossible for me to look to all the add ones on a day. So I have on my to do list, go through add ones and see which ones make sense to us and not us. And I’ll pick one a day and put them on my list to check out. And stuff like this. So I do have things that I always do on the day. And this is quite lean, and really just the main things. And if I still have time and think like, oh, I still wanted to work a bit more, then I will go to my to do list and look okay, what’s the next thing I would have to do? And basically from that to do list, I’m creating the today list for the next day as well at the end of the day. And I love kicking things off, like crossing things through. I’m a person who is really driven and motivated by having crosses crossing things through. And apps don’t give me that same feeling. Because sometimes the tasks disappears, or sometimes they go into a different column. I work with Asana with Trello with with other Wunderlist and stuff like that. That yeah, that’s my, my at the moment my to do list.
Oliver
Yeah, nice. That sounds really good. And this is like the most important part, right? You have the kind of the kind of backlog your long to do list. And then you have like to do this for each day. Nice. And I want to give one more time, and then I would summarize everything in this. Yes. Okay. And yeah, I hand over to you again. One thing that normally causes a lot of problems or tasks that you for example, you should okay, I do this on Monday, then it’s Monday, you don’t do it, but it’s an important part. So you schedule it on Wednesday, then you schedule it on Friday, and so on and so on. And I have a rule for me that if I’m rescheduling tasks a specific task more than two times, it will be for the next time My top priority number one. So in this case, I really try to no nice, yes to two. Or you said to control myself, because I know sometimes I don’t want to do tasks, but I know it’s important. And then if I reschedule it’s more than two times, then I have to decide, will I do it or not? Maybe I will throw it away. So I won’t do it. Or if I do it, I will put it directly on my to do list top priority number one. So it will be done. This is like my last tech that I give you.
Christine
A lot of times things go from one list to another to the next. And then it’s right, I’ve done that as well. I went through the to do list from time to time I go through that, and not the today list, but the to do list. And really check. Okay, which tasks on here are on here for too long? And I haven’t done? And if they are, are they really important? And do I really have to get them now. And then I’m not really from time to time, I just delete things. And think, okay, nothing’s happening if I don’t do that, or if it’s a super good idea, but it’s really just not relevant or not doable at the time. I will put it on a different list that I have, actually with ideas and stuff, I have so many ideas, what I want to do in the business, how many books I write what topic about and what webinars to do, who do I want on the podcast and stuff like this. So I probably have planning and stuff going on. But ideas that come up, I have on an ideas list. And every time I’m ready to start a new project, maybe I go through that list and pick one of them, but going through my to do list and deleting thing or moving them to an ideas list. But they’re not doable at the moment. So they’re not present. I do that as well.
Oliver
Yes, so I really want to stress out this point. And this is like my third step of his summary. The first thing is, when it comes to task management, you have to kind of part that you really have to pay attention. The first one is managing your tasks. And the second one is eliminating tasks, right. So when it comes for example, like you said, you don’t if something is too long on your to do list deleted. If for example, you you’re used to post on social media, because you got like no huge audience. or stuff like this, then, for example, you should think about is this still an important task, or cannot delete deleted. So you really have to spend time in eliminating tasks on the one hand. And when it comes to managing your task, my three hacks, use action verbs, use the two plus eight prioritization system, and just get used to thinking about time management and task management combined.
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